McCloud and Berger RR and Questions

Before you read (McCloud):
My favorite cartoon as a child was "Calvin and Hobbes". I can relate to this character because I had a stuffed animal that I always took every where. Granted my stuffed animal did not come to life and and get me into trouble occasionally, it was my best friend and I played with it everyday.

Before you read (Berger):

Similarities:
Both exhibit the woman as an object, showing that she waits for whomever is watching her.
Both have some covering but show skin in a provocative way.
Seductive facial expressions.
Both look disheveled as if an afternoon of "activity"
Differences:
Modern image shows edited nudity, to prevent "pornography"
photography vs a painting
modern image seems closed off and protective of their body, older image is open and shows off her body.


Summary:
In McCloud's "Vocabulary of Comics" he explains that humans give symbols and objects humanistic traits. By explaining personification, he proves his point of the simpler the drawing the more the viewer sees and adds. He also explains that by putting ourselves into personality lacking objects we "Define the frame."

In Berger's "Ways of seeing" he explains that in early century European nude paintings that women were meant to be seen as submissive and that not only do men study and judge a woman based on her actions and appearance but also the woman does of herself. He compares art from the early centuries and modern art and advertisements, showing that the woman is still viewed as an object.



Synthesis:
McCloud's idea does not really tie into anything else we have read yet, but it ties to the way that Berger explains how the owner becomes the viewer of the women, not the artist, in "Ways of seeing". McCloud states that the viewer puts themselves in the picture while Berger states that they do not.

Questions for Discussion (McCloud):
1.) I think that adults still enjoy cartoons because they are simplified and remind us of childhood. I don not think that there should be an age limit on watching or reading cartoons because there is no age limit on entertainment or self interests. McCloud uses comics so that people pay more attention to the point he is trying to prove rather than bore the reader with strict texts or over stimulate and distract from an overly detailed drawing.
2.) He uses it so that the reader is more engaged and plays closer attention to what he is saying. His point would have stayed the same, only his examples would not have made any sense, they would not have been clearly "illustrated".
3.) Yes, it is true because if the pictures are more detailed the reader would become distracted with the images and less interested in what the cartoon is expressing as the point. Also characters are "blank slates", we use our own inner voices and personalities to read and comprehend what is going on in the cartoon. Plus our minds eye creates a world that we enter as the main character.

Questions for Discussion (Berger):
1.) Yes, it was to make the women of their time appear submissive and below men. Berger agrees and states a similar idea in paragraph 25.
2.) Mostly fashion or sales ads, basically promising that if you buy this product you will be sexy and desirable. They have changed in the ways that we do not have nude images for the pornographic interpretation.
3.) Women are still constantly assessed on their appearance, actions, and attitudes. And most women own it, to get what they want without working terribly hard for it.
4.) The audience is most likely art students, based on his way of introducing and explaining the works of art and also his introduction.
5.) "The Other" is in meaning to the opposite sex or the person in the work of art. Stating that subconsciously we do want to see them in the submissive state.

Applying and Exploring Ideas (McCloud):
1.) Yes, many people are visual learners and can associate pictures with what they have learned. I think that English, History, and some Science classes, would be most beneficial to students.
2.) That if an object does not have a humanistic identity we put our personality traits into it and share a connection. But when a person sees a photo of an actual person, they are less likely to identify with the person and more likely to associate with the action or place in the photograph.
3.) I believe that some people "grow out" of cartoons because they feel it is childish. Another example is in middle school many people stop doing things and buying things they think are "baby stuff", when as a college student suddenly becomes lifelines, such as Capri suns, lunchables, and pillow pets. Maturity levels are based on self perception and some people feel that to be mature they must act older.
4.) McCloud calls the human face a mask, which is very true. You can hide your true emotions by facial expressions the most common example for this is people to fake a smile when they are upset. Without "the mask" people would not pay attention to self image and how others perceive them.

Applying and Exploring Ideas (Berger):
1.) Men are not really used in art work other than historical pieces or as additions to artwork containing women.
2.) Women in artwork are objects to the viewer. In writing the text is seen more as an idea or concept, it is not thought of as something that a person could possess.
3.) I see the positioning in the modern way as sexual and directed towards the viewer and away from other things in the image.
4.) Humor is seen as a way for women to be seen. Berger explains that women use humor as a trait, and men use humor as humor.

Meta Movement:
I think it helped in understanding "viewer" and "audience". I know that to capture attention the writing must be alluring and seem directed to the reader as if it written specifically for them.

Conclusion:
Both articles brought different arguments into light and used different examples, but tie together how to identify and attract audience. McCloud explains to simplify, while Berger says to seduce/suggestively imply that the reader is the whole reason the author wrote the piece.